I have debated writing this for several days because it's one of those topics. But I can't get it out of my head. I know that I'm going to anger and offend some people with my opinions, but that is what they are: my opinions. I am not writing this in order to stir up controversy or drama or fighting or anything else - I'm writing it because I need to get it out of my head.
All that I ask from you is that if you want to comment, please be respectful. Everyone has opinions. Everyone's opinion is right - to them. Just because you may not agree does not give you the right to be disrespectful to anyone.
Which brings me to the subject matter at hand.....
I don't remember when the subject came up for me, but I believe it was last summer sometime. The opportunity to enroll Alex in Boy Scouts presented itself. I didn't think much about it - I mean, come on, it's Scouts. Teaching boys how to camp and be respectful and all sorts of good stuff. What could be bad about that, right?
I admit that I was pretty oblivious about some things - and now, I so wish that I had done some research.
But I didn't. I went by my own preconceived notions and beliefs and we got started in Scouts.
He has had a blast. I have had a blast. He's in with a great group of kids and adults. He's already gotten to do a lot of really fun stuff and he's learning. All in all it's been a very positive experience for him.
However, the controversy surrounding Scouts has me more than a little concerned. And upset.
In case you haven't heard, the BSA is talking about lifting its ban on homosexual members - boys and adults.
Wait, what..........?
Lifting a ban on homosexuals? Are you serious?!?!?! You can't be serious.....
Are you telling me that I enrolled my son into an organization that BANNED homosexuals?
I. am. mortified.
And I am angry.
For whatever reason, I didn't know that Scouts had this ban. I seriously didn't know. I should have known, but I didn't. Had I known, Alex wouldn't be in Scouts in the first place. I assumed that since it was 2012, discrimination against any group of people wouldn't be an issue. I just went back and read through the paperwork that I signed when he joined - nothing in the paperwork says "you must be straight". It says something about following the "Declaration of Religious Principles" which I didn't even know existed until tonight.
And without quoting and getting all sorts of technical about it, basically the Declaration says "Hey, we're a religious organization, but we don't dictate what religion you follow. If you don't belong to a church, we assume that your parents are teaching you about whatever religion you choose to follow. If you do belong to a church, we assume that you follow the rules of that church."
OK, so the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. So theoretically....if you're following any sort of Christian religion, you shouldn't be gay. I get that.
But the last time I checked, Christians weren't supposed to judge each other, either.
I go to church almost every week. I was raised Methodist, and that's the kind of church that we go to simply because that's where I'm comfortable. I don't claim to be a Christian, because even at 42 years old I'm still not sure what to believe. I do believe that there is something way bigger than I am out there but whether it's "God" or "something else" - I haven't figured that part out yet. Regardless, I don't have a problem with religion in general.
(For the record - the older three kids also attend a Baptist church with their father, and Alex occasionally goes to his stepmother's church, but I'm not sure what denomination that is. If I felt that my religious views superseded all others, my kids would not be attending other churches.)
I do not believe that ANY religious views should overrule others. None.
What I do believe is that no person - regardless of religious affiliation - has the right to judge another person.
No one has the right to discriminate against another person.
My children will NOT be taught that it is ok to judge or discriminate against anyone for any reason. My children have always been and will always be taught love, acceptance, and tolerance. They will be taught that it is ok to stand up for what they believe in and that it's ok to stand up for others who are being discriminated against for any reason.
I do not want to pull Alex out of Scouts. I really don't. I think that the experience is a good one for him. But if this ban is not lifted at both the national and local levels, I don't feel that I have a choice. I can't teach my children that judging others is wrong if we are participating in an organization that does exactly that.
How can BSA teach these young boys about honor and respect for others when they aren't modelling the same behavior as an organization?
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| Found on Google Images |
I'm right there with you, my son just got home from his meeting. I've been conflicted for years, and have written about it before. The prospect of them changing has me so far beyond ecstatic. We've always chosen packs/troops with non-religious or inclusive-religious affiliations for this very reason. Let's hope.
ReplyDeleteThe vote is today. Not sure what time. I have a feeling that they'll lift it nationally to appease the masses, but I doubt that our local one will lift it - the joys of being in the Bible belt. :/
DeleteFirst, I don't think you need to apologize for the way that you feel. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and hopefully people will be respectful as they read and comment here.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, I think it's hard to make a decision about pulling our kids out of activities that also teach them a lot about life. Is the local group going to teach a hatred against a certain group? Probably not. But I do get what you're going for here -- it's the idea that by being a part of this group, you're supporting their philosophies (after all, we help raise money for them right?).
As for the basic issue at hand, I agree with you. I am a Christian, and I am proud to call myself that. I don't believe that the Bible fully calls out homosexuality except in the Old Testament (if there), but that Christ's teachings tell us two things: Love God. Love each other. The end. The rest of our rules fall under those two categories. Loving people NO MATTER WHAT falls under those two categories.
More power to you. This is well-written, and again, you should feel free to express your opinion on YOUR space.
Thank you, Lyd. I appreciate the kind words. It will be a very difficult decision if the ban isn't lifted - and the vote is sometime today.
DeleteI dealt with this in Cub Scouts several years back. The "ban" does not keep members out, nor their parents, but an openly homosexual parent cannot volunteer their time to the organization. The parent can and will be allowed to go on camp outs, do activities with their child etc, but cannot help beyond that because of the BSA policies. It is archaic, but not as harsh as it may seem, at least not from the interpretation our council gave to guide me in my search to help an openly homosexual woman enjoy cub scouts with her son. On the flip side I have had parents refuse to register their daughters as Girl Scouts because GSUSA does not discriminate religiously (including Pagans) or sexually. This is just been my experience. I feel both programs are great if you the kids are learning and having a good time. When that ceases, so should your membership.
ReplyDeleteActually BSA has denied membership to homosexual boys. Google it.
DeleteUnfortunately, the ban has been used to keep both kids and leaders out of the organization, as well as to at least one young man from attaining his Eagle Scout ranking even after he earned it. It is a good program, and while I understand that they're not TEACHING bigoted ideas, I feel that they are modeling them - and I'm not ok with that.
DeleteThere is also the argument that the toughest battles are fought and won from within. If everyone who doesn't support The scouts' principles continues to not involve themselves in the organization, then policies are likely to never change. It's fairly easy to ignore outside pressure, but, if dissenting opinions comes from "accepted and appropriate" members that the behavior is unacceptable, eventually things change. Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteDarn it. Why do you have to make so much sense? You are right - but the decision will still be a tough one if it comes down to me having to make it.
DeleteI spent almost ten years in the Boy Scouts and learned many valuable life lessons.
ReplyDeleteI also have several gay friends (one couple has been together for 28 years) and have never had one try to "convert me". Also, gay does not mean/equate to pedophile...you know, those adults who actually sexually abuse kids.
As a straight male, who was an Eagle Scout, I am proud of the BSA for coming to terms with this issue.
Bruce
Well the vote is today. I do have a feeling that they will lift the ban nationally - but if they do that then the local councils will have the option of either keeping it or lifting it as well. We'll just have to see what happens.
DeleteWell I am glad you voiced your opinion. I didn't know that the boy scouts did that. I believe in loving one another because we are not to judge one another that is Gods job.
ReplyDeleteThank you very much!
DeleteMethodist Christianity and Baptist I'm not aany religion and shouldn't be looked upon a one!and the Boy Scouts of America should be allowed the same freedoms as all of our military that don't ask that don't tell policy stay into effect!I also agree that anyone no matter who they are for what they believe in should be allowed into the scouts as well as any other place in the world so what's the difference why because its all boys?that should not make any difference!if he wants to volunteer that he is gay that's 1 thing but he also does not have to volunteer that information to anyone! Just because somebody is gay does not mean they are going to touch another boy in anyway! this world is gay cruises gay clubs gay restaurants gay marriages so what is the differenc there is none!!!!I totally agree with the woman who wrote this 1000 percent there is no reason to put a ban downfor the Boy Scouts of America that has been going on for years and years!this is a free country and you have a choice to be whatever or whomever you want to be. Don't tell your boy out of boy scoutshe has every right to be there just like any other boy! I back you up on this 1000 percent
ReplyDeleteThe vote is today, so we'll see what happens nationally - and then what effect that will have at the local level.
DeleteI'm glad you spoke up.
ReplyDeleteWe pulled our older kids out of scouts years ago when they told us to fake it on the Religion badge (or whatever it was called). We are a secular family...ok, we are atheists. We were in scouts for the friends and the camping. Hell, my husband was the pack leader! We left and found other (and might I add, better) ways to give our kids a sense of community.
If the national organization rules to lift the ban they have said they will leave it to each chartered pack to decide for themselves what their policy is regarding to LGBT leaders. This will allow each group to keep their rules in line with the organization (usually a church) that supports them. That's fine. I believe in their right to be bigots. I just don't have to support them.
Exactly. I would like to see them change their policy - but as a private organization I do understand that they don't have to do it. But I don't have to continue to support them either. It's such a hard decision - I just keep hoping that the ban will be lifted both nationally and locally.
DeleteI live in an area where most of the Boy Scouts are Mormon, and vice versa. My fiancee's half-brothers are in Scouts, and I have watched them slowly turn into bigots over the last 2-3 years.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea if this is a result of scouts, their peers, or a combination. But that combined with the intolerance of the area makes me worried to have kids in Idaho.
To add to the conversation, the BSA is talking about letting the sponsors decide whether to allow or deny homosexuals in their specific troops... which means in my area, it'll still be "no f*gs allowed" as usual. :/
Just my 2 cents...
DeleteIt's not Scouts. Not the actual program, at least. They may have a leader that allows that, but the actual program is really about getting along with everyone.
The program is only as good as the people who represent it.
DeleteIt's hard to pinpoint the root cause of anything like that, but I definitely understand your concern. My oldest son tried Scouts for a year (in a different town) but he just didn't mesh well with the leader and so he quit. I think a lot of it has to do with the particular leaders. I like ours and I don't have a problem with them - my problem is with the policy itself.
DeleteI may get a lot of flack for this, so be it.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people think the Bible says Christians are not to judge, but in actuality Christians are commanded to judge with righteous judgement. Righteous judgment must be based on conclusive evidence. Christians may not judge on the basis of appearance, personal opinions or unsubstantiated suspicions.
Jesus said: "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye" (Matthew 7:1-5).
If Christians condemn someone for something they do themselves, they bring condemnation upon themselves.
However, Christ also said "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24).
There is a place for righteous judgment. When Christians persist in sin, they are to be judged by their fellow Christians, as Paul explained to the Corinthians: "I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner -- not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore 'put away from yourselves that wicked person'" (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).
Christians may not reserve judgment when faced with clear manifestations of evil. Jesus reprimanded the church at Thyatira: "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and beguile My servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat things sacrificed to idols" (Revelation 2:20).
Therefore, if a Christian judges homosexuality to be sexual immorality, as long as they are not sexually immoral, it is not wrong for them to do so. But they need to be just a condemning of adultery, promiscuity, etc. No sin is greater than any other, excepting the one unforgiveable sin. All are equally condemned by the teachings of Christ.
Thank you for this. I'm atheist, I was never taught any religion as a child so I never fully understood why judging was "ok" I think your comment was very polite and informative!
DeleteThank you. :)
DeleteI should also point out that righteous judgment is to be applied only to other Christians. Christians may recognize and acknowledge sin in unbelievers, but they are to try to steer them towards belief. If they choose to not believe then Christians should avoid them. Only God can judge salvation.
DeleteGod said, "When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself" (Ezekiel 3:18-19).
If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope—and with the ultimate goal—of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20) and restoration to the fellowship. We are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). Christians are to proclaim what God's Word says about sin. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences
Yes, thank you for the information - I was not aware of some of these verses and they do make a few things a bit clearer for me....and they give me something to look into for my own reference.
DeleteI will say this though - my understanding from what you wrote here is that any judgment is supposed to be made against Christians by Christians but in this day and age that isn't always the case. SOME Christians find it their duty to judge EVERYONE - and regardless of their target, they do not do it lovingly and respectfully.
Not all Christians - but some. And they're the ones who give the good ones a bad name.
sorry for my spelling errors Methodist Christianity and Baptist is not a religion.and should not be looked upon as 1. That was my mispell I apologize!
ReplyDeleteNo problem!
DeleteGOOD LETTER. GRANNY
ReplyDeleteThank you!
DeleteI just started following you recently (after the Tooth Fairy letter! I loved it!). Chick, this is YOUR blog. Post whatever you want and do not apologize for it. If people don't want to hear what you have to say, they can delete you or choose not to follow you.
ReplyDeleteAs for me, I loved your little rant and agree wholeheartedly! I envision some of the uptight, intolerant people I know (who so forcefully HATE gay marriage, gays in the military and Scouts, etc.) waking up in 20 years and realizing they were complete and total schmucks.
Anyway, hope you take joy in the positive feedback and ignore the intolerant, holier-than-thou people (who probably shout from the rooftops every chance they get about what strong Christians they are!)
Ah, that blasted tooth fairy letter! LOL
DeleteThank you so much for your kind words - I really do appreciate it. When I started this blog I had no idea that it would get any followers, so the attention has been a little unnerving - but I'm glad that this post has been accepted (for the most part) with very little drama!
Forgive me ahead of time, cause this might turn into a novel...
ReplyDeleteI'm a gay woman. I'm gay and I'm legally married to a woman who had a young boy from a previous marriage. My brother was a scout, so was my dad and my grandfather. When we got married and I brought up scouts as an activity, my wife was appalled. She couldn't, not for one second reconcile OUR kid in scouts. I talked her into it, and this is why: It's about the kids. Really... It's about my kid learning how to camp and fish, tie knots and build birdhouses, clean up parks and watch birds. My kid is now in 5th grade, has been a scout for three years, and is earning his Arrow of Light in a few weeks. (That's like Eagle Scout for Cub Scouts). He's earned 20 out of 21 Webelo badges, and he's already set his sights on Eagle and Order of the Arrow.
The BSA isn't a religious organization per se, but they support organized religion. You don't have to be Christian, they have an inclusiveness religious badge for Jews, Hindis, Buddhists, etc...The units can be sponsored by any community group (like a VFW) or any school, churches just sponsor the majority of them.
As far as gays go...it's crap. It's an old policy put on the books during a time when gay panic was widespread. It's been defended over and over again because gays are somehow 'immoral' and prone to child molestation. Everyone knows that's a load of crap. Was Jerry Sandusky gay? Most men who prey on children are not gay. It's an insult to gays to equate the two. Another argument is that putting kids into tents where there may be a sexual attraction can cause problems. True, however, some of the Venturing troops in scouts are co-ed. The bottom line is that scouting programs don't teach kids about sex. They just don't. straight or gay, sex isn't a topic.
It's unfair to kids, like Ryan Andersen, who joined scouts at the age of 6, and at the age of 17 was denied his Eagle because he discovered during puberty that he was gay. Gay isn't a disease, it's not something that can be prevented, and it's not a choice.
I fully appreciate your stand. I really do, but don't pull your boy out because you're upset with National's policy. Local packs and troops are much more accepting. Most don't have issues with gay leaders or gay kids, but if that scouter is reported to National, then they are expelled.
My kid loves scouting. I'm as involved as I can be in my local units, but I hate that I can't do more. As a married, legal family, I can't partake in my kid's life. It sucks.
The best we can do is to move for change...change to National's policies, some of us from within.
So scout on, Mom.
Thank you very much for your feedback - it's awesome and I love it!
DeleteThe part that really got to me though was when you said "My kid loves scouting. I'm as involved as I can be in my local units, but I hate that I can't do more. As a married, legal family, I can't partake in my kid's life. It sucks." THAT really bothers me. You are a family. You are a parent. But because of your sexual orientation, you can't do what you want to do as a parent - and I don't like that at all. How do you explain that to your son? "I'd like to go to this event with you, but the Scouts won't let me because you have 2 moms"? (I'm not trying to sound callous or flip about it, but it's hard to convey exactly what I mean, so please PLEASE don't take offense!)
I do like the organization as a whole - but in teaching my kids that acceptance and tolerance are of the utmost importance, it's hard to justify being in an organization that doesn't do the same. Ugh.
Excellent post. I think if he likes scouts then he could stay in but explain to him that the rules on religion and homosexuality and the fact that people should be open to be what they are without harassment or discrimination. Then let him decide to stay or leave scouts. Wish you the best!
ReplyDeleteI've thought about that too, but he's only 7. He doesn't "get" it on the level that I do. But at the same time, because he doesn't get it, it might not be bad to leave him in for a while longer - but then I feel like a hypocrite.
DeleteWhat I need is for them to just lift the ban both nationally and locally - then life will be good. *crosses fingers*
You are absolutely amazing for addressing this issue! This was all over the news where I live because a young man was so close to getting his Eagle Scout status (?) and was refused because he is gay. Another man was a Boy Scout father and withdrew his son because the dad is gay and is in a committed relationship with his partner (not sure if they're married or have taken civil vows or whatever).
ReplyDeleteBeing gay does NOT mean the person is immoral or a pedophile or whatever. Of all my gay friends, not ONE of them is a bad person and I would much rather have them on my side than a judgmental person who not only passes judgment on others but is thoroughly convinced anyone who supports the gay "lifestyle" is also going to hell (I actually heard this one day).
I am not a religious person (I am not atheist or agnostic either)and every religious argument I've heard against homosexuality makes me cringe! Why not just be kind to one another and not bring religion into it? The Bible talks about murderers, adultery and theft but as we all know that happens every day and no one is on their soapbox about these sins like they are about being gay. This is MY opinion and perception on it.
Again, thank you for taking that step out of your comfort zone and posting this! You just made my day!
Thank you so much, Sherrie! I really do appreciate it!
DeleteI think that part of the reason why this issue hits so close to home for me is because I do have so many friends who are gay - and they are some of the most awesome people on this planet. I trust them with my life AND with my kids' lives. Being gay does not make anyone a bad person. Yes, there are bad gays, but there are also bad straight people.
To deny a young man his Eagle Scout award after putting in so many years of hard work is just wrong. I can not even imagine how upset he must be about it.
All I can do at this point is hope that the ban is lifted both nationally and locally.
I think you did a wonderful job. I kept my kids out of Boy/Girl Scouts because of the religious aspects - we are atheist - and our experiences with leaders. There are many, many, many other ways to provide the same knowledge, experiences and camaraderie without either organization.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it is up to you, your conscious how to do it. Mothering isn't a set in stone, read a book for all the answers endeavor.
Now take a deep breath, and Mommy On!
Mommy On! I like that! ;)
DeleteSo far the religion part hasn't been a huge part of Scouts. Like I said, I don't consider myself to be a Christian so I am a little more in tune to when religion is brought into play (and find out that most times it's done strictly for convenience or to make a point).
I'll figure it all out eventually.
From my understanding the ban didn't come about because of religion but because the time the ban was set to place homosexuals where still a taboo subject and the Boy scouts had gone through some major publicity on the fact scout leaders where molesting scouts. So the ban was placed because to easy the mind of parents. Note it was many years ago when are country was still pretty narrow minded.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure about that either - but it's something that I might look into just for the knowledge. What drives me nuts is that pedophiles are not necessarily gay, and gays aren't necessarily pedophiles - but people assume that a gay leader is immediately going to start molesting all of the boys in the pack or something. The stereotypes are so frustrating.
DeleteI come from a long line of scouts. Girl and boy. Its like this. The scouts are (supposed to be) a Christian organization. As a private group they should have the right to dictate the remnants of their organization. I get that people have a problem with the idea of "discriminating against gays", but what are we teaching our children about following rules and living up to a standard if the boy scouts cave in to the will of the masses, rather than having the strength of character to meet the standard that God has set. Isn't CHARACTER one of the things that the boy scouts are trying to instill in its members? No one is saying "bully gay boys" or beat them up. But homosexuality is against the rules. We can't keep teaching our kids that rules dont matter.
ReplyDeleteI know. And I agree with you. And that's part of what makes this hard. They are a private organization and they can make their own rules, and I respect that. Had I known about the rule, it would be a non-issue because we wouldn't be in this position. But, I didn't know and now I have to make a decision once the vote is completed (unless they vote to lift it both nationally and locally). I do agree that the Scouts have every right to make their own rules. I don't agree with the rules. But I'm also not going to jump up and down and scream at them and try to force them to change the rules.
DeleteI'm babbling.
I realize this is a hard subject for you as it hits home more than some other subjects..Personally I am also conflicted. (Forgive me - this WILL turn out to be a mini-novel...)
ReplyDeleteYou see I WAS a boy scout in my teens. Well, the branch was called Explorer Scouts and they are co-ed. I learned more on First Aid, Search & Rescue and many other things. I NEVER saw or heard of any discrimination against ANYONE for ANY reason. Whether they were gay or straight or for any religious affiliations or NON-affiliations it was NEVER an issue. I was also in a leadership role in my post. I was Vice President and dealt with National Leaders at times for different outings and events. I didn't even get crap because I was a female in a MALE organization. Everyone treated EVERYONE with kindness and respect ALWAYS. And before someone says it's because I was in leadership role, well you can think what you want because you will anyway, but I know that is just not true. That is just how EVERYONE treated me even before I was elected VP of my post.
I am also a Christian. I struggle with those Christians that say God says that being gay is a sin, and here is why. I know that the bible says that a man should not lay down with man. But there are also places where it says we are to sacrifice animals but we are told not to in others, we are told to not cut our hair but we do. I just can't wrap my head around anything that would make me be an unkind person for any reason. That's just not who I am. Personally, I prefer to live by the golden rule -> 'TREAT EVERYONE THE WAY YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED'. For me that also means to not judge anyone but to love them. Just because people are different and believe differently than me, it does not mean I can't or shouldn't love them.
I am a Momma of FOUR kids (ages ranging from 21 to 4) and I have always taught them to be tolerant of others - even if you don't agree with their opinions or views you can still be kind, respectful and just generally a nice person to EVERYONE you meet.
I have found that some of the most INTOLERANT people are actually those who are preaching tolerance. The ones who want everyone to be accepted but can't accept someone who disagrees.
So from one Momma to another, do what is right for YOUR son, on a personal level. Answer these questions for your family - does HIS troop/pack demonstrate the values of your family? Has ANYONE in his troop/pack done anything to warrant you withdrawing him? Has his involvement with his troop/pack improved his behavior? Has it changed him for the worse??? If his involvement has impacted him in a positive way, why would you withdraw him???
I know when the time comes and my 4 year old son wants to join the Boy Scouts, I will be doing the Momma thing and kind of interviewing the troop/pack, see if he gets along with them, likes them and seeing if their values match our home values. I think it really depends on the troop/pack and the family. But, that's just this Momma's opinion.
Good Luck & God Bless...
I totally agree with you. And while no, they don't specifically teach anything on accepting those who are gay, they don't have any reason to do so because they don't let the gays in - so it's almost like avoidance to me. "As long as we don't let the gays into Scouts, we don't have to model being accepting and tolerant of them. We can pretend that they don't exist, because in our little world, they don't."
DeleteSo no, they're not showing anything negative to the kids in this respect, but they're also avoiding a chance to teach them something positive.
Does that make any sense at all?
I fully agree. I am a born and raised Baptist and I hate seeing people fight over sexuality. Love each other. That's what the Bible teaches. Not, 'Love the straight people.' I may not be a parent but I definitely understand your feelings. Discrimination against anyone is NOT okay, but I agree with the person who said fighting from the inside is the only way things will ever change.
ReplyDeleteBut ultimately, you're the mama bear and you will have to decide what is best for your cub. Excellent post!
Thank you so much! It's just a tough situation all the way around.
DeleteHey there, peeps, Dude again.
ReplyDeleteDid a little research, it seems that the BSA does not receive any direct funding, per se, but they do get Federal, State and local subsidies. For instance the Boy Scouts Jamboree seems to get some backing from the Pentagon. Some cities offer free or extremely reduced funding to use the City properties.
I guess, from my libertarian perspective, I have a problem with an exclusionary organization receiving money from tax payers, when I see our current form of taxation as a use of force against the population in the first place. I tend to lean in a voluntaryist mindset, in my mind the people who want to fund and support the BSA should be allowed to... but how is it a honest and fair institution when money taken from Gay and Lesbian people goes to a group infamous for excluding a group of citizens whose bedroom activities should have no bearing on whether or not they're qualified to tie a slipnot or prepare smores.
Perhaps, in that very spirit of voluntaryism, we should encourage, donate to and support a more secular version of the BSA. We don't have to agree on anything in life, from politics to sexuality, but we can agree on getting together to teach our children a sense of community, to care for their fellow human being... and of course how to make that perfect marshmallow roasting stick!
This.
DeleteYou know I agree with you, babe, but to me it's not even about the funding. It's just the whole "no gays allowed" thing that I really hate. To me it is just wrong.
DeleteNow, if they are receiving any kind of government funding and are still exclusionary - there's definitely a bigger issue. Right now I just want to see how the vote goes today.
Ii have been thinking about this particular post for some days now and finally I have a thought for you. I know you are shocked that the BSA has had this rule against Gay participants in their organization and IF you had known about it, you wouldn't have signed up your kiddo in it; but you did. Here it is: Your son is enjoying it and recieving many benefits from it. BSA is at least talking about the issue rather than standing firm on their position like they used to and they are considering removing that restriction. So my question for you as a Mom. Look at your son, do the benefits he is recieving outweigh their position/stance? also if your son is old enough and ready to listen could you teach him about your views on it. Parents can counter many incorrect positions in the world mainly because our kids spend so much time with us. Use that time, as I am sure you do, to share your position with your son. You could also have a conversation with your son (depending on his age etc) that if it is mentioned to him somehow that gays aren't allowed to come talk to you. I think based on the age I assume you son is (from the pictures), he is probably unaware of this issue but then again kids can surprise you with what they know. BTW BSA position was formed many, many years ago when to many people 'gay' meant 'pedophile' and now we know that is not the case.
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